Jan. 28, 2025
From the Vault: Pet Vaccination 101: Expert Insights from Dr. Jeff Grognet
Bonus Episode From the Vault: The #1 Most Downloaded Episode of 2024!
While we’re on a break until Feb 4, we’re bringing back one of your all-time favorite episodes from 2024!
In this episode, holistic veterinarian Dr. Jeff Grognet emphasizes the critical importance of understanding pet vaccinations, including core and non-core vaccines, potential risks of over-vaccination, and tailored vaccination schedules based on pet age and lifestyle. This episode empowers pet owners to have informed discussions with veterinarians and advocate effectively for their pets' health and well-being.
Highlights:
- The significance of core vs. non-core vaccines
- Assessing the risks related to vaccinations, including allergies and adverse reactions
- Evaluating age and lifestyle factors in determining vaccine needs
- Understanding rabies vaccination protocols and legal requirements
- Exploring alternatives to traditional vaccination practices
- Guidance on how to communicate effectively with veterinarians
- Stressing the importance of informed consent and pet owners’ rights
Learn more about Dr. Jeff, his work, and his courses at www.newearthvet.com.
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Chapters
00:10 - Pet Vaccination Essentials and Guidelines
04:01 - Optimizing Pet Vaccination Strategies
13:45 - Vaccine Duration and Effectiveness
20:48 - Alternative Methods to Pet Vaccination
31:57 - Navigating Pet Vaccination Concerns and Decisions
40:38 - Podcast Promotion and Pet Affection
Transcript
WEBVTT
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As we take a short break between seasons of muddy paws and hairballs, we're bringing back one of the most essential episodes for every pet parent pet vaccination essentials.
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Vaccines are a crucial part of ensuring our pets live long and healthy lives, but I've learned through my own experiences that understanding them fully can be a little more complicated than I once thought.
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Like many pet parents, I always used to follow a pretty standard vaccination schedule, but as I've learned more, and especially having conducted this interview with Dr Jeff Grognett, I've had to reconsider and educate myself more on the latest guidelines and the unique needs of each of my pets.
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In this episode, we dive into the core things that every pet parents need to know, whether it's determining what vaccines your pet really needs or understanding the risks of not vaccinating.
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I wanted to bring this episode back because it's so crucial to make informed decisions that are in the best interest of our pets.
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Whether you're new to pet ownership or you've been in the game for years, this episode has information you can use to make the best interest of our pets.
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Whether you're new to pet ownership or you've been in the game for years, this episode has information you can use to make the best choices for your pets.
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Stay tuned for expert insights and personal tips that'll help you navigate the world of pet vaccinations.
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Today, we're gonna be talking about vaccinations for your pets, and my guest, who was actually a guest very early on in the show, dr Jeff Grognett, is a practicing veterinarian and an award-winning author With over 40 years in practice.
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He's been actively teaching for 35 years and has taught over 42,000 students wanting to create veterinary assisting careers.
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He has developed courses on pet first aid behavior and training, as well as holistic therapy.
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First aid behavior and training, as well as holistic therapy.
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Dr Jeff has a passion to teach owners how they can better care for their pets.
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From a holistic standpoint, he focuses on nutrition, minimizing vaccines and reducing toxin exposure.
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So, dr Jeff, thank you and welcome back to the show.
00:02:00.224 --> 00:02:01.246
Thank you very much, amy.
00:02:01.246 --> 00:02:03.391
It's great to be here, great to get the message out.
00:02:04.420 --> 00:02:28.084
Yeah, definitely, and obviously I get your emails and so I've seen all the information and the classes that you've been having about vaccines and I thought this is going to be a perfect topic for a perfect expert to help us kind of get some things straight, because I think pet parents are very confused and kind of don't know who to believe when it comes to what our pets need from the standpoint of vaccinations.
00:02:28.084 --> 00:02:39.985
So one of the things that has come up is the idea and I had never heard the term before except for in the past couple of years is core vaccines versus non-core vaccines?
00:02:39.985 --> 00:02:40.888
What does that mean?
00:02:41.669 --> 00:02:58.129
That sort of moniker for the vaccines came out when they developed vaccine guidelines, and so core vaccines are the ones that are considered the life-threatening quote common diseases that, in this case, cats and dogs can suffer from.
00:02:58.129 --> 00:03:04.991
And so the core vaccines the guidelines suggest that they should be done in all cats and dogs.
00:03:04.991 --> 00:03:25.883
The non-core vaccines, differently, are ones that are you can call them optional, and what they say with those is that it depends on the risk and the exposure and what the pet is going to be exposed to, as in what they may come down with, is going to be exposed to, as in what they may come down with.
00:03:25.883 --> 00:03:36.195
The definition of core and non-core is strictly a conventional mechanism and that is just how they break down the vaccines.
00:03:36.195 --> 00:03:48.608
And there's also some confusion on what should be labeled as a core and a non-core vaccine.
00:03:48.627 --> 00:03:53.222
And, for example, a little while ago in California, they put leptospirosis as a core vaccine in some areas because they were seeing more cases.
00:03:53.222 --> 00:04:00.581
So because of that, all of a sudden lepto became a core vaccine, according to those veterinarians in that area.
00:04:00.581 --> 00:04:07.741
This is not something that is regulated, it's something that veterinarians will sort of come up with.
00:04:07.741 --> 00:04:12.091
I'll call it by themselves, and what it does is.
00:04:12.091 --> 00:04:17.630
It creates the idea of calling it CORE, creates an urgency that you should get that vaccine done.
00:04:17.630 --> 00:04:26.601
It doesn't change the facts of the problems with vaccines how often you really should do them that type of thing but it does.
00:04:26.601 --> 00:04:34.730
It is used as a moniker for saying, oh, these are the important ones and we've got to do them on this regular schedule, conventionally.
00:04:35.581 --> 00:04:39.028
Okay, got it and so you know, for years and years it was.
00:04:39.028 --> 00:04:46.973
You know, every year you go to your vet and every year you get this barrage of vaccines and it seems like nobody ever really questioned it.
00:04:46.973 --> 00:04:56.855
But I think this issue is coming up because we actually have been finding that we are over vaccinating our pets and that there are risks associated with that.
00:04:56.855 --> 00:05:00.370
What kind of risks do our pets face when we over vaccinate?
00:05:02.461 --> 00:05:13.050
Yeah, well, I wouldn't even call it over vaccinate, I'll just call it vaccinating, because as soon as you say over vaccinate, then it's kind of well.
00:05:13.050 --> 00:05:13.833
What do you mean by that?
00:05:13.833 --> 00:05:15.101
No, it's just.
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Vaccinations can cause problems, and the one that's recognized universally, of course, is allergic reactions.
00:05:23.444 --> 00:05:28.807
You give an injection of a vaccine and they can have a life-threatening reaction.
00:05:28.807 --> 00:05:36.742
I always think of it as in the, you know, the 10-year-old kid who gets a peanut and they have an allergy, and then they end up going to hospital.
00:05:36.742 --> 00:05:39.529
They can have those life-threatening reactions.
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The most common allergic reactions are the ones where the face swells up and so the muzzle gets really thick, the eyelids swell, the ears get thickened, and in those cases it's like oh okay, we've got an allergic reaction going on here, and then another one they can have 12 hours later, 24 hours later, is hives, so they can have little bumps all over their body which are very itchy, and so that's the allergic reaction.
00:06:08.125 --> 00:06:18.990
That is the thing that is recognized by all veterinarians as in oh, that is a direct vaccine reaction.
00:06:18.990 --> 00:06:31.627
The other ones that occur are ones that occur delayed, and the one that came to the forefront back in the 1990s was the one that's called a feline fibrosarcoma.
00:06:31.627 --> 00:06:35.362
It's a tumor that occurs at the site of an injection in cats.
00:06:35.362 --> 00:07:03.661
Now that used to be called a vaccine-associated feline fibrosarcoma, but what they found is that it's to any injection you could have an injection of antibiotics, steroids, uh, program flea stuff and even microchips they can stimulate, uh, growth of a tumor in cats say, okay, so that's not a direct vaccine effect, but it's an effect of the injection of the vaccine.
00:07:03.661 --> 00:07:06.471
So so that's that cancer in cats.
00:07:06.471 --> 00:07:16.891
That was the thing that changed our whole thinking of gee, vaccines are safe and effective versus oh no, vaccines are causing a little bit of a problem here.
00:07:16.891 --> 00:07:24.309
Okay, so that actually that was the thing that changed the tide in vaccines for real.
00:07:25.411 --> 00:07:28.684
The other things that we see we can see hemolytic anemia in dogs.
00:07:28.684 --> 00:07:33.983
That's where they start destroying their own red blood cells because their immune system's kind of messed up.
00:07:33.983 --> 00:07:37.088
We can also see bone inflammation.
00:07:37.088 --> 00:07:40.182
It's called hypertrophic osteodystrophy.
00:07:40.182 --> 00:07:46.134
It's where they get bone changes on their I call it the fingers, and again, that's in dogs as well.
00:07:46.134 --> 00:08:13.925
But the other two things and this is what's really pushed by holistic practitioners is that there's two diseases that are rampant and they're really causing problems and certainly most holistic vets would say, yep, vaccines have a role in this, and the two are allergies, which have so many dogs suffering from and generating huge bills because of medications that are used for that too, and the other one is cancer.
00:08:13.925 --> 00:08:17.185
We're seeing so much cancer now.
00:08:17.185 --> 00:08:31.670
Compared to when I graduated, the difference is night and day, and that's just in my time as a veterinarian, and so because of that, yeah, I think we have to sort of rethink our whole strategy on vaccination.
00:08:32.620 --> 00:08:50.672
Yeah, and so how do we in general and then maybe get into the specifics for individual pets, but how does one find that balance between protecting my pets from the obvious dangers and then not over vaccinating and figuring out what's the right schedule and for us to follow?
00:08:51.379 --> 00:08:52.682
Yeah, that's.
00:08:52.682 --> 00:08:56.072
That's about a two day webinar that I could do for you.
00:08:56.072 --> 00:08:59.666
Amy, I'm quite sure this is OK.
00:08:59.666 --> 00:09:04.905
For the first thing is here's a simple one it's based on the risk of the disease.
00:09:04.905 --> 00:09:07.192
Ok, and so let's take two.
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The first thing is here's a simple one.
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It's based on the risk of the disease.
00:09:09.398 --> 00:09:10.059
Okay, and so let's take two.
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You've got an indoor cat.
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Feline leukemia is only passed on from one infected cat to another when they have a fight.
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An indoor cat does not need the vaccine for feline leukemia.
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That's real simple.
00:09:24.503 --> 00:09:44.288
When you have a dog and you're worried about Lyme disease, well, you've now got a four-pound Yorkie that lives in your apartment with you and you go out with it under your arm, put it down on a little bit of grass outside your apartment building, pee some poops, pick the dog up, go back in.
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Lyme disease is not a threat.
00:09:46.352 --> 00:09:51.530
That dog is not going to pick up a tick and get Lyme disease in his world, right?
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So you have to look at the risk from that standpoint.
00:09:55.509 --> 00:10:16.394
The other side is and this is what a lot of people don't even talk about is that, as you have animals that age and what I'm talking about is puppy and kittenhood versus three years old, say, distemper in dogs and also parvo are puppyhood diseases.
00:10:16.394 --> 00:10:21.673
If you give parvo to an older dog, they will usually survive it.
00:10:21.673 --> 00:10:22.821
They do quite well.
00:10:22.821 --> 00:10:23.981
They will usually survive it.
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They do quite well.
00:10:24.381 --> 00:10:34.490
In the same way, cats with panleukopenia, which is stupidly called distemper, but it's also parvovirus, which everything is really complicated on that one.
00:10:34.490 --> 00:10:38.995
But the point is, feline panleukopenia is a kittenhood disease.
00:10:38.995 --> 00:11:11.044
If you give that to an adult cat, yeah, they might get a bit of vomiting, might get a bit of diarrhea, but it's well known that if you have a pregnant cat, a queen that's pregnant, and they pick up panleukopenia during pregnancy, they will end up with birth defects in the kittens, they end up with this really wild nervous problem called cerebellar hypoplasia, and so the point is they survive the infection just fine, right.
00:11:11.044 --> 00:11:27.811
So the so the big thing is that, as as they start to age, their immunity to the diseases get so much better, and so even with the core vaccines, it's like, oh, if you have a 10 year old dog or cat, they don't need the core vaccines anymore.
00:11:27.811 --> 00:11:29.384
They're not going to die from it.
00:11:29.384 --> 00:11:32.072
They're not kittens, they're not puppies, right?
00:11:32.072 --> 00:11:33.565
So there's a huge difference there.
00:11:35.000 --> 00:12:04.166
But the other side is and this is the thing that's really come to light is the effectiveness of the vaccines, and a great example would be dogs coronavirus vaccine, and coronavirus supposedly causes a little bit of vomiting, diarrhea, that type of thing when they did the studies on the vaccine that's available, what they found is that they couldn't actually create disease with the coronavirus virus in the control group.
00:12:04.166 --> 00:12:09.414
So, so, therefore, the vaccine didn't prevent anything from happening, wow, okay.
00:12:09.414 --> 00:12:16.990
And so the case is that the studies kind of show that, well, what's it protecting against Nothing?
00:12:16.990 --> 00:12:20.076
It's not needed, okay.
00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:27.913
And then when we get into the leptospirosis vaccines, there's a lot of concern on that, one and two things.
00:12:27.913 --> 00:12:36.014
One is that quite often it doesn't produce immunity to the leptospirosis strain that the dogs are exposed to.
00:12:36.014 --> 00:12:44.630
But the other side is lepto and also Lyme in dogs are your most reactive vaccines causing problems?
00:12:44.630 --> 00:12:52.861
In cats, it's the feline leukemia one that causes a lot of the problems.
00:12:52.861 --> 00:12:53.864
So, as you can see, we have to start.
00:12:53.864 --> 00:12:54.785
We have to look at each individual vaccine.
00:12:54.785 --> 00:13:02.065
It's not fair to label every vaccine as causing huge problems, right, there's specific ones that do cause some real issues.
00:13:02.065 --> 00:13:03.326
Some of them don't.
00:13:03.788 --> 00:13:03.989
Yeah.
00:13:03.989 --> 00:13:16.167
So when a pet owner because generally I think people don't do a good job of asking questions when they go to the vet they go to the vet and there's kind of two sides of it, right.
00:13:16.167 --> 00:13:21.053
There's the person that the vet says fluffy is due for X, y, z, and you get it all done.
00:13:21.053 --> 00:13:30.645
And then you get the people on the other end and oftentimes it's economic reasons that they say, well, I can't do all that or I don't want to do any of it because my cat doesn't go outside.
00:13:30.645 --> 00:13:39.490
So you had mentioned the idea of your living situation being a major factor in deciding what vaccines you need, and then age of the pet.
00:13:39.490 --> 00:13:41.225
Obviously that's going to play in.
00:13:41.225 --> 00:13:43.100
Are there other factors that I should consider?
00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:44.363
Obviously that's going to play in.
00:13:44.363 --> 00:13:45.083
Are there other?
00:13:45.104 --> 00:13:45.745
factors that I should consider.
00:13:45.745 --> 00:13:48.552
Yeah, this is where you have to look at each of the diseases.
00:13:48.552 --> 00:13:57.850
Generally, most dogs can get away and this is dog land right now most dogs.
00:13:57.850 --> 00:14:06.409
You can get away with not giving any of the non-core vaccines because of lack of efficacy and also concerns with reactions to it.
00:14:06.409 --> 00:14:15.953
The problems with a lot of the vaccines is they don't work that well, and the best example is Lyme disease.
00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:21.730
Over 95% of dogs, when they're given Lyme disease, they will just brush it off.
00:14:21.730 --> 00:14:24.182
You won't even know that they had an infection.
00:14:24.182 --> 00:14:32.321
An infection, okay, they they may, might have a day where there's a little bit off, but otherwise, no, they don't have a problem there.
00:14:32.321 --> 00:14:38.383
They end up, uh, just just getting rid of it and like say, most times you wouldn't even know it's Lyme disease.
00:14:38.383 --> 00:14:45.066
There's a very small subset and this is what's really advertised in the veterinary world that they can suffer from.
00:14:45.066 --> 00:14:52.794
Something called Lyme nephritis is a kidney infection due to, or should say, kidney inflammation due to, lyme disease.
00:14:52.794 --> 00:14:54.923
We also see the same thing happening.
00:14:54.923 --> 00:14:58.306
If you vaccinate a dog, you can get Lyme nephritis, that from that.
00:14:58.306 --> 00:15:01.322
So it doesn't have to be the pure.
00:15:01.322 --> 00:15:02.785
You know the bug itself.
00:15:02.785 --> 00:15:06.683
So you have to look at all those aspects, as in gee.
00:15:06.683 --> 00:15:07.567
Is it really worth it?
00:15:07.567 --> 00:15:08.980
Should we be doing that?
00:15:08.980 --> 00:15:17.317
In Catland there is a vaccine available and I just want to throw this one out right now For FIP.
00:15:17.317 --> 00:15:25.966
It's feline infectious peritonitis, which is a coronavirus, and the vaccine has been proven to not work Okay.
00:15:25.966 --> 00:15:36.044
And if you look up the American Association of Feline Practitioners Vaccination Guidelines, it will say in there vaccination for FIP is not recommended.
00:15:36.044 --> 00:15:45.576
That's the stuff that we should be following and that is in the vaccine guidelines which are created by the veterinarians that know what's going on there.
00:15:45.576 --> 00:15:57.961
But but the real, real big thing about this uh, very simply, amy, is we have to look at how long vaccines last and the.
00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:06.230
The pioneering work was done back in the 1970s by a Dr Ron Schultz, and what he did.
00:16:06.230 --> 00:16:18.339
He was a veterinarian, of course, and he had this concept of why don't we vaccinate dogs once, and I'm talking Cora vaccines here, so distemper, parvo.
00:16:18.339 --> 00:16:24.688
You vaccinate them once and then you check them a month later to find out did they respond to the vaccine?
00:16:24.688 --> 00:16:36.110
You do it tighter and if you find that they have produced an immune response, that immune response means that the immune system is activated.
00:16:36.110 --> 00:16:44.508
We have memory cells in there which persist for the lifetime of the dog, we do not need to do another vaccination period.
00:16:46.013 --> 00:16:57.241
The same concept applies in cats with panleukopenia, not so much with the respiratory viruses, because that's kind of like you and me with the flu virus, right, and that is.
00:16:57.241 --> 00:16:58.465
It's changing all the time.
00:16:58.465 --> 00:17:11.483
So it's very difficult to have 100% immunity to the feline respiratory infections such as rhino and caliche, but that's the fate of that one.
00:17:11.483 --> 00:17:17.468
You're never going to have 100% on it because you can't vaccinate for every strain that's out there in the world.
00:17:17.468 --> 00:17:21.846
And the other thing is cat and dog vaccines never change.
00:17:21.846 --> 00:17:26.115
Is cat and dog vaccines never change?
00:17:26.115 --> 00:17:33.928
They don't update the strains in the vaccines from year to year like they do with the human flu vaccine or the COVID vaccine or anything like that.
00:17:33.928 --> 00:17:37.134
Okay, so they're static vaccines.
00:17:37.134 --> 00:17:46.351
They were implemented, created decades ago, okay, but the main thing is we've got them lasting longer.
00:17:46.351 --> 00:17:49.442
We don't need to vaccinate every year or every three years.
00:17:51.449 --> 00:17:57.464
Well, and that actually brings up a question that I hadn't thought about before is the whole idea of what is the deal with these.
00:17:57.464 --> 00:18:06.182
One year, like rabies is one that is required in our communities here in Texas, even though there are very few cases of rabies that are out there in our communities here in Texas, even though there are very few cases of rabies that are out there.
00:18:06.182 --> 00:18:12.323
But obviously when you get into situations where it's a disease that can transfer to humans, I guess that makes it a much bigger deal.
00:18:12.323 --> 00:18:13.486
But it used to be.
00:18:13.486 --> 00:18:21.101
You got a rabies vaccine every year and then it's like well, if you got it one year and then you get the booster the year next, now you can go three years.
00:18:21.101 --> 00:18:22.683
But is it the same vaccine?
00:18:22.683 --> 00:18:23.707
Is it a different vaccine?
00:18:31.275 --> 00:18:32.137
It is the same vaccine, completely Okay.
00:18:32.137 --> 00:18:43.748
The reason for the one the getting it done as a puppy or kitten and then doing it a year later and then moving to a three year schedule is because that is how the vaccine was tested Okay, so the vaccine manufacturer tested it that way.
00:18:43.748 --> 00:18:47.560
Vaccine was tested Okay, so the vaccine manufacturer tested it that way.
00:18:47.560 --> 00:18:55.761
And and what they said is that, okay, based on a three year, a three year interval we have, we have good protection, so therefore we can say it should be done every three years.
00:18:55.761 --> 00:18:59.617
It provides what they call 85% protection.
00:18:59.617 --> 00:19:04.244
It's not a hundred percent, okay, and that's the thing.
00:19:04.244 --> 00:19:11.182
Very few vaccines produce 100%, but in the case of rabies, 85 is the minimum for the three year duration.
00:19:11.182 --> 00:19:21.278
The kicker is this you're not going to find a vaccine manufacturer who's going to do an expensive study with the goal to reducing their sales.
00:19:21.278 --> 00:19:23.503
It just doesn't make sense for them.
00:19:23.805 --> 00:19:24.226
Yeah, okay.
00:19:25.415 --> 00:19:43.744
The one thing I do want to comment on, though in cats there has been a vaccine that was produced which was quote purer than the original vaccines, and so because of that it didn't have a lot of the gunk in there and it specifically didn't have an adjuvant.
00:19:43.744 --> 00:19:47.780
Adjuvant is additive vaccines to bump up the immune response.
00:19:47.780 --> 00:19:59.648
So the key with that is that the adjuvants were originally were blamed for creating the higher instance of the tumor, the fibrosarcoma we were talking about.
00:19:59.648 --> 00:20:00.076
Mm, hmm.
00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:17.007
And so this this vaccine was manufactured, but because it didn't have an adjuvant to stimulate immunity and it was brought on sort of quickly, it was only good for one year, so that specific rabies vaccine had to be done every year in cats.
00:20:17.007 --> 00:20:19.477
This wasn't dogs, it was strictly cats.
00:20:19.477 --> 00:20:39.016
But what we now know is that the incidence of tumor is no different with the non-adjuvanted one-year vaccine and the three-year adjuvanted vaccine, and what we're doing is we're giving three times as many vaccine, which is just boosts up the number of the tumors that can actually occur.
00:20:39.016 --> 00:20:47.296
So very good reasons to avoid the one-year vaccine and stick with the three-year one if you have to do it.
00:20:48.478 --> 00:20:59.021
Uh, and unfortunately, as you, as you mentioned, amy, in texas, but in pretty every us state, there is a requirement for rabies vaccination.
00:20:59.021 --> 00:21:26.568
There is something that in and the number the number that I've got from this and I don't know how accurate it is is 18 states supposedly have exemptions for rabies vaccine that you can actually apply for, so to speak, and but that has to be done by a veterinarian and what they do is they apply for an exemption based on the health of the animal had, past reactions to the vaccine or something like that.
00:21:26.568 --> 00:21:31.227
And certainly when you're dealing with a cat that's got kidney failure.
00:21:31.227 --> 00:21:37.000
You've got a dog that's diabetic or had cancer, like a mast cell tumor, you know things like that.
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:38.343
It's kind of like gee.
00:21:38.343 --> 00:21:41.642
Do we want to give them any vaccines and mess up their immune system here?
00:21:41.842 --> 00:21:42.324
Yeah, really.
00:21:42.914 --> 00:21:45.821
And if the answer is no, that's what we're trying to avoid.
00:21:45.821 --> 00:21:47.986
We're trying to prevent that from happening.
00:21:47.986 --> 00:22:07.481
Like you say, the rabies incidence is really low, but unfortunately, because it's a human disease, then you get public health involved, and they're the ones that stimulated the rabies vaccination laws for the dogs and cats Right right so very hard to get around that.
00:22:07.481 --> 00:22:33.576
Okay, and so because of that, unfortunately we do see some areas where the rabies vaccine is really pushed, and this is one sort of thing.
00:22:33.616 --> 00:22:34.498
I get, I guess, confused and concerned about.
00:22:34.498 --> 00:22:34.838
Is that, when did?
00:22:34.858 --> 00:22:36.181
veterinarians become the police in the rabies vaccines for animals.
00:22:36.181 --> 00:22:49.561
Good point as in why are they the ones that are pushing this point when it's the you know, it's the law that should be saying it, and then it should be our option to say, hey, I'm going to, I'm not going to do it, I'm going to disregard the law.
00:22:49.561 --> 00:22:58.269
But the veterinarians quite often get in there saying that we have to do it and it comes down to their liability.
00:22:58.269 --> 00:22:59.978
I think it's a little bit misguided.
00:22:59.978 --> 00:23:02.003
I don't think we do that.
00:23:02.003 --> 00:23:08.282
It's the same thing with our medical doctors, where they do the same thing to us.
00:23:08.282 --> 00:23:10.268
Good question.
00:23:12.655 --> 00:23:25.968
Well, I think you know, as far as the rabies goes, I mean, when it would ever come up is really when you're trying to do something like going to a boarding facility, going to a training class, whatever it might be, where there would be required proof of rabies.
00:23:25.968 --> 00:23:36.409
Because your average person who goes to the vet once a year gets done what needs to get done, has their pet in their home and takes their pet everywhere with them and doesn't partake of those facilities.
00:23:36.409 --> 00:23:40.759
Nobody's ever going to question whether their dog has a rabies vaccine, unless it bites somebody.
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:44.986
Then that's a whole other ball of wax, but it's just not something that's going to come up.
00:23:46.146 --> 00:23:54.428
No, no, if you're just walking down the street, you don't have the people asking you can I see your rabies vaccine before I pet your dog?
00:23:54.428 --> 00:23:57.895
You know exactly.
00:23:57.895 --> 00:24:37.675
But anyway, yeah, the thing about that is that if you're pushed into doing any vaccines and this is just a case of if you have to get vaccines done there's also what we call remedy, called Thuja, and it's spelled T-H-U-J-A, and that one is a general remedy that's used for vaccinosis to prevent the side effects of vaccines long term.
00:24:37.675 --> 00:24:43.221
And then, if you're dealing with rabies, the most common one that's used is called Lyssin.
00:24:43.221 --> 00:24:49.247
If you're dealing with rabies, the most common one that's used is called Lyssin L-Y-S-S-I-N, because the rabies is a Lysivirus.
00:24:49.247 --> 00:24:50.587
That's where the name comes from.
00:24:50.587 --> 00:24:51.469
Okay, okay.
00:24:52.951 --> 00:25:04.854
And so I mean those are homeopathic remedies that are used a lot for incense, like a detox, and so definitely, if you're getting that done, that's something to consider as well.
00:25:04.933 --> 00:25:20.971
Okay, okay, so kind of along that same line for somebody that might be concerned about disease but at the same time maybe more concerned about vaccines are there alternatives to vaccines, to protecting our pets from some of these common diseases?
00:25:21.392 --> 00:25:24.102
Okay, well, there's two ways to go.
00:25:24.102 --> 00:25:33.037
One is to reduce the vaccines to a lower number as possible, and the other one is to not use vaccines and use a different method.
00:25:33.037 --> 00:25:45.307
In terms of the different method, that's where we're talking about using homeopathic no-sodes, and no-sodes are homeopathic preparations made from the disease itself.
00:25:45.307 --> 00:26:00.449
It contains the virus, and then they're prepared in the homeopathic method of dilution and succession, as they call it, and that is what's given to the animal and this is the key it doesn't produce an immune response.
00:26:00.449 --> 00:26:01.596
Okay.
00:26:01.836 --> 00:26:05.996
Okay, so you can't measure antibodies after you give them a homeopathic preparation.
00:26:05.996 --> 00:26:19.700
What you're giving them the homeopathic thing for is that they're at risk of picking up the disease, and what it does is it helps the dog or cat get through that without having any symptoms of the disease at the time.
00:26:19.700 --> 00:26:20.541
Okay.
00:26:21.384 --> 00:26:38.228
And if you want to get into no-sodes, there's companies that sell them both for dogs and cats, and you just look up homeopathic no soads for canine distemper, or you look for feline leukemia or something like that, and what you can do is you can purchase them.
00:26:38.228 --> 00:26:40.000
What I found is that each one of them has different directions on how to use them.
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:43.291
What I found is that each one of them has different directions on how to use them.
00:26:43.291 --> 00:26:54.785
Okay, and so what you'll find is some say, give it twice a week or something like that, during the susceptible period, and then you give it once a month or something like that.
00:26:54.785 --> 00:27:02.585
They're all over the map on that, and so where you purchase it from, they'll be able to tell you how you should use it.
00:27:02.585 --> 00:27:05.337
Okay, but that's one method.
00:27:05.337 --> 00:27:16.217
The other way, and this is the one that I used at the hospital is and just here's a very simple program for you and I'll tell you what it is and then I'll tell you how it works.
00:27:16.917 --> 00:27:27.897
What I was doing, for example, in dogs, is that I would see them as a puppy dogs is that I would see them as a puppy at 16 weeks.
00:27:27.897 --> 00:27:28.420
I'd see them before then.
00:27:28.420 --> 00:27:30.486
But the first vaccine, and the only vaccine I gave was at 16 weeks of age.
00:27:30.486 --> 00:27:42.323
The reason we wait for that is maternal antibodies have come down, and so what happens is, as they go down, there's no interference from the maternal antibodies they got from their mother's colostrum.
00:27:42.323 --> 00:27:49.324
Therefore, they'll respond to the vaccine at 16 weeks and 97% of puppies respond then.
00:27:49.324 --> 00:27:50.625
Okay, so we know that.
00:27:51.887 --> 00:28:06.028
So what you do is you give the vaccine and this is a core vaccine and then a month later you do a titer, and a titer is a measure of the antibody in the bloodstream to that specific disease.
00:28:06.028 --> 00:28:11.346
And so, for example, we gave a parvovirus vaccine.
00:28:11.346 --> 00:28:21.026
A month later we do a parvoviral antibody test, the titer, and if we find that it's gone up, the immune systems now responded.
00:28:21.026 --> 00:28:32.635
And that way we also know we've got a clone of white blood cells called B lymphocytes, which are producing antibodies to that virus, and they will persist for life.
00:28:32.635 --> 00:28:37.667
And this is something that every veterinarian knows and learned in vet school.
00:28:38.055 --> 00:28:40.461
As in yeah, immune system means we've got it for life.
00:28:40.461 --> 00:28:48.183
Just like me having a polio vaccine when I was a little guy, I don't get re-vaccinated when I'm 40 years old or whatever.
00:28:48.183 --> 00:28:50.608
It doesn't run out right.
00:28:50.608 --> 00:28:58.709
So the key is, it does persist for, as far as we know, a lifetime for the memory cells.
00:28:58.709 --> 00:29:01.857
So if the titer's proven that you got a response.
00:29:01.857 --> 00:29:03.819
There's two big things here.
00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:12.590
It means that oh, we've got memory there, we don't need to revaccinate, and the other side is we also don't need to do another titer.
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